Malcolm Cox is a British minister and long-time friend.
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Malcolm: Good morning, Doug!
Douglas: Good morning, Malcolm!
Malcolm: Thanks so much for agreeing to be interviewed. I think we’re going to have a great time with this.
Douglas: I’m looking forward to it! It helps that we’ve known each other for over 40 years now—makes the conversation feel even more relaxed!
Malcolm: You’ve moved back to the UK—what brought you back?
Douglas: Family. My mother-in-law is 90—she’s our last remaining parent—and we really want to be there for her, especially since her health has been declining rapidly. She lives in Cumbria, just across the bay from us—about 30 minutes away from our apartment. [Note: my mother-in-law passed away just after this interview was published.]
Malcolm: I remember your cozy little house in Edinburgh. Now you’ve got an apartment in Lancashire, right?
Douglas: That’s right. We live in one of 13 units in a converted church building. It sounds spiritual, doesn’t it? But the street we’re on is Broadway, which has a bit of a worldly ring to it! A taxi driver dropped me off the other day and said, “This used to be the daycare where I brought my kid!” Before this, we lived in London, Birmingham, and Edinburgh for a total of 12 years. Now we’re settling into a smaller town, which is a nice change of pace.
Malcolm: So, let’s take a trip down memory lane. Where were you born, and what was your childhood like? Any memories that stand out?
Douglas: I was born in Florida, where I grew up surrounded by lush vegetation, hurricanes, and snakes. I sported a southern accent and a crewcut. My dad worked as Vice President of Prudential Insurance Company, and when I was almost 8, we moved to New Jersey when he got transferred to the corporate office. That first year was a huge change. We lived just 10 miles from New York City—right in the shadow of Gotham. The southern accent disappeared quickly (though I still said “Warshington”!), and I ditched the crewcut. I experienced my first snow (a blizzard), learned to skate, played hockey on the lakes, and had my first ride in a prop plane. The clouds seemed so close, I almost felt like I could touch them!
Malcolm: Do you think you were more introverted or extroverted as a kid? Were you analytical or creative?
Douglas: I am definitely more introverted by nature, though I’ve always enjoyed games, adventure, and most sports. I’ve had a lot of people over the years encouraging me to be more outgoing, and I’ve worked on that—it’s been a lifelong project. As for being analytical or creative, I think I’m a blend of both.
Malcolm: Looking back, would 10-year-old you be surprised by the life you’ve had so far?
Douglas: Oh, absolutely! That 10-year-old was deeply interested in reading, science, and math. He taught himself to type on his dad’s old Underwood typewriter. But extensive international travel or writing a book—he never would have imagined that. And as for becoming a full-time church worker for 20 years, then a freelance minister for another 20+ years—that would have shocked him!
Malcolm: If you could give your teenage self any advice, what would it be?
Douglas: I’d tell him, “You don’t need to be the class clown, Doug. God loves you. Stop worrying about what others think. The family dinner isn’t a race—slow down and enjoy the food and the time with your family. And eat healthier. Drink water, not soda!” Maybe that would have helped me avoid the acne and the heightened self-consciousness that came with it.
Malcolm: I hear you were involved in Scouts. Was that a big part of your upbringing?
Douglas: Yes, absolutely. Those five years were well spent. They told me that only 1% of Scouts make it to Eagle, which just made me more determined to prove them wrong. I had this misconception that if I wore the right insignia, people would just listen to me. (Spoiler: that didn’t happen!) But eventually, I did make Eagle (with palms), and also joined the Order of the Arrow. I’m really glad my parents pushed me to join the Scouts.
Malcolm: What was your first job? I know you spent a long time on church staff, but what did you do before that?
Douglas: My very first job was with the Boy Scouts of America. My entire summer paycheck was $50—tent and food were covered. The next year, I made $150 since I was 16. Before college, I sold Italian ice at Six Flags and earned $2.40 an hour. In university, I worked multiple part-time jobs, like grading homework and tests for Duke’s Math Department, and secretarial work for Kelly Services. The main purpose was to have something to put into the collection plate. Later on, at Harvard, I had cleaning jobs in two museums, and even worked as a janitor one summer, earning $5 an hour. In 1982, I spent six months working at the Senate House at the University of London, making £100 per week. (A far cry from affluence!)
Malcolm: How did school go for you? Was it smooth sailing, or did you find it challenging? Any subjects you particularly enjoyed?
Douglas: My attitude was pretty breezy in public school—I often did my homework while walking home. But when I transitioned to private school, things got tougher. Seventh grade was a turning point. I took Latin and was also placed in Algebra 1 (I struggled at first), and my Latin teacher told me I was the second-worst student in the class and suggested I drop it. That stung, but it pushed me to improve. The principal told me I’d need to study 90 minutes a day to succeed in Latin, so I committed to that. By the end of the year, I was getting As in both Latin and Algebra. Latin’s still a language I enjoy reading today. Looking back, I realize how privileged I was to have such a solid education. I don’t think I really appreciated it at the time.
Malcolm: What about your university days? Where did you study, and what was your experience?
Douglas: I studied at Duke University in Durham, North Carolina, then went on to Harvard Divinity School in Cambridge, Massachusetts. I also attended Drew University in Madison, New Jersey, and completed three years of part-time postgraduate study at Kings College London. As the years went on, I found that the more time I spent in academia, the more I enjoyed learning.
That said, my first year at Duke was a bit of a shock. Back in high school, I graduated at the top of my class, but after the first semester at Duke, I was surrounded by hundreds of students with higher GPAs than mine. It left me feeling a bit defeatist. I figured out that I could coast and get Bs without putting in much effort. As a Christian—I came to faith in the middle of that first semester—I began to rationalize my mediocre work, thinking that I should prioritize sharing my faith over academic achievement. I convinced myself that the Lord wanted me to spend my time evangelizing, and I didn't see the need to push myself academically. Ultimately, this attitude cost me my scholarship, as I failed to maintain the required B average.
MC: What activities or subjects catch your attention outside academics?
DJ: I play the keyboard. Vicki and I are passionate dog lovers. We also enjoy watching sports, including football, rugby, tennis, and snooker. And I’m a big fan of word games.
MC: When did your faith journey begin? Could you share a bit about how and when you became a Christian?
DJ: My faith journey started early. Growing up, my family attended church regularly—Episcopalian—which helped plant the seeds of faith and got me thinking about the transcendence of God. During confirmation classes, I felt my curiosity growing, but it wasn’t until a bit later that I encountered Christians who were truly vocal and passionate about their faith. It was during my time in college that I realized I could take ownership of my faith. Only one day into university—I was barely 18—two of the brothers invited me to a group Bible discussion, and I said yes. I was baptized at a Church of Christ in Durham, North Carolina, in the fall semester of 1977. Since then, my relationship with Christ has been a continual and transformative process, and it still shapes my life today.
MC: Was evangelism easy for you?
DJ: It started almost immediately after my baptism! Once I got back to my dorm, I knocked on doors to tell other students about my baptism and ask if they had been baptized (I know—quite subtle!). Door-knocking became one of my favorite ways to evangelize. Over time, however, my approach became more relational rather than simply “cold contact.” So yes, I suppose evangelism was easy for me, though that doesn’t mean I was always free of anxiety or that I didn’t “chicken out” sometimes. It’s not always easy to discern when to speak and when to be silent (Ecclesiastes 3:7).
MC: What difficulties in your life have shaped your character and built resilience?
DJ: One significant challenge was losing my scholarship at Duke. It was a tough moment, but in hindsight, it was an opportunity in disguise. Wise friends encouraged me to fight for it, so I worked hard to get it back, which meant taking two extra courses and earning As. One of the benefits of the scholarship was a study term at Oxford, which was an incredible experience. It was also my first time leaving North America. That experience ignited a passion for travel and learning that continues today. This setback in 1979 ultimately led to tremendous growth, just as a deserved reprimand from my Latin teacher in 1971 became a turning point in my life.
I also owe much of my resilience to Christian mentors and leaders who have pushed me beyond my comfort zone in areas like relationships, public speaking, and outreach. Last year, I completed a 40-week resiliency training program that proved extremely beneficial. This year, I’m serving as a co-facilitator for a cohort of men focusing on resilience. A lot of it starts in the mind.
MC: Tell us the story of you and Vicki. When did you first meet her, and what do you remember about your wedding day?
DJ: We met at Wembley Arena, after the 1983 Women’s Basketball Semifinal. Our first date was two weeks later; two and a half years after that we were married. Our wedding took place at a beautiful and historic church building. It was a rainy day, but sun came out during the ceremony. I was so excited (nervous?) that I ate nothing at the reception. Apart from my parents and brother, the only other person who flew across the Atlantic was a friend of ours, Dr. Jim Miner. It was the first wedding in the London church. Malcolm, I’m sorry I missed your wedding [one week after ours]! We’ll be celebrating our 40th anniversary this summer.
MC: You and Vicki have three children and a dog—or is it the other way around?
DJ: No, you have it right! The “children” are all in their 30s now.
MC: Any other pets? Cats? Fish? What’s the pet family dynamic like?
DJ: Over the years, we’ve had cats, fish, and guinea pigs. (I tell the lamentable story of the deaths of the guinea pigs in our parenting book The Quiver (retitled Principle-Centered Parenting.)
MC: So what is the dog situation? What breeds have you had over the years?
DJ: Growing up, we had a French Poodle, a German Shepherd, and a Cockerpoo. Once I had my own family, the dogs have been Cocker Spaniel, Border Collie mix, and (now) a Bernese Mountain Dog. Darcy is a big dog (40 kg) but has the playful spirit of a puppy. When I tell people about her, I freely admit she’s the best Christian in our family (gracious, forgiving, always joyful and happy to see you). I like to share this prayer: “Lord, help me to be the man my dog thinks I am.” [Sad note: we lost Darcy soon after the time of this interview.]
MC: Many people know you as a writer. How do you see yourself—first and foremost as an author, or something else?
DJ: I see myself first and foremost as a student, always learning. While writing is an important part of my ministry, most of my time is spent in other areas.
MC: You've written quite a few books. Which ones are you particularly proud of, most excited about?
DJ: I’m particularly proud of Origins, Campus Core, Messianic Judaism, and A Quick Overview of the Bible. Thrive and When God is Silent were especially challenging for me, as they required me to dig deep, and to share personally.
MC: Are there any new books on the horizon? Anything in the works that we should look out for?
DJ: The next release is Amen & Amen, slated to be published by BroadStreet Publishers in August. This is a revision of the original Amen (Illumination Publishers). I’m working on a couple of other books, for 2026 or beyond.
MC: Take a guess—how many books do you think you’ve read in your lifetime?
DJ: I’d estimate around 5000.
MC: Any favorite authors who’ve really influenced you?
DJ: In high school, I loved Kurt Vonnegut. In college, Francis Schaeffer and C. S. Lewis. In the last 30 years, so many writers!—like David Bercot, Paul Copan, Scot McKnight, F. LaGard Smith, and Philip Yancey.
MC: Favourite books in this past year?
DJ: With by Skye Jethani, The Second Mountain by David Brooks, and From Strength to Strength by Arthur C. Brooks. It’s interesting—these books all prioritize relationships over activity and achievement. I also recently finished Solzhenitsyn’s The Gulag Archipelago, which was a tough but thought-provoking read. It’s hard to believe that the Soviet concentration camps were worse than the Nazis'.
MC: What advice would you give to someone hoping to become a Christian writer, YouTuber, or podcaster? What should they be mindful of?
DJ: Writers are readers. Many would-be writers read very little or abandon books halfway through. Read widely and complete what you start. As a speaker, make sure you’re speaking clearly—listen to yourself! Good advice for everyone: just because you have a fresh idea doesn’t mean it’s an original one. Before diving in, see what others have already written or recorded. No need to reinvent the wheel.
MC: You’ve been to Israel quite a few times. I remember the tour we took with you—Penny and I will never forget it. What are your thoughts on the current situation between Israelis and Palestinians?
DJ: Yes, 25 times to Israel, although we’ve canceled three tours recently, for obvious reasons. The current situation is deeply saddening. As my Palestinian friend (and peace activist) Aziz Abu Sarah wisely puts it, “If you’re pro-Palestine, you’re not for peace; if you’re pro-Israel, you’re not for peace.” When we take sides, we will not act in love. That’s a challenging thought, because it’s human nature to conceive of conflicts simplistically, in overly black-and-white terms.
MC: As an experienced traveler, how many nations have you visited? Any favorites in terms of beauty or personal connection? And are there still places you’re itching to visit?
DJ: I’ve visited over 130 countries. Some of the most beautiful places I’ve been to are Norway and Switzerland. Three places I’d love to visit are Greenland, Antarctica, and Iran (once the government embraces religious freedom).
MC: Do you have any idea how many miles you’ve clocked up in the air? I imagine it’s quite a lot!
DJ: Somewhere north of 5 million.
MC: So the airlines know you on a first-name basis?
DJ: I wouldn’t say that, but when you fly as often as I do, they take good care of you—despite the occasional canceled flights or lost luggage.
MC: Tell me a little about the ministries you’ve led.
DJ: Over the years, we’ve had the privilege of leading ministries in London, Birmingham, Sydney, Stockholm, Philadelphia, Washington D.C., and Indianapolis. We headed up ministries at a dozen colleges, too. We’ve also ministered extensively in the Atlanta area. From 2004 till the end of 2024, I headed up the Athens Institute of Ministry—biblical training. A couple of memorable experiences: leading a Bible study aboard the U.S.S. Mullinix in Boston, and another group in the Pentagon. Thanks to my friend and New Testament scholar, Mike Licona, I occasionally lead the weekly Bible study for the senior staff of the Atlanta Braves.
MC: Are you thinking of retiring anytime soon? Or do you see yourself continuing for a while yet?
DJ: The truth is, I enjoy all the components of the International Bible Teaching Ministry. Of course I realize that time and gravity will effect retirement—ultimately! But before then, I’m putting on the brakes. Life coaching has helped me to think more clearly about the transition. Last year I cut my hours from 60 a week to 30 (except when traveling). I’m inspired by Psalm 92:14 and other passages showing older believers still energized and ready to take on new challenges.
MC: Ever had a brush with fame? Have you met anyone well-known?
DJ: Every now and again I’ve crossed paths with someone famous, but more often I meet someone connected to a well-known person. For example, my uncle and aunt were next-door neighbors of golfing giant Arnold Palmer. My own brushes with fame include meeting Francis Collins (his team sequences the human genome), the President of India, the US president’s Chief of Staff, many theologians (N. T. Wright, Scott McKnight, Ben Witherington, and many more), a handful of famous athletes, Mother Teresa, and even a notorious serial killer.
MC: Have you interacted much with followers of other faiths, like Muslims, Hindus, or Buddhists? What have those conversations been like?
DJ: Sure—lots of interaction. At Harvard Divinity School I conversed with followers of various religions—for example, a Japanese Buddhist monk and a much-respected Tibetan Buddhist lama. On moving to London (at age 22) I was surrounded by people from most of the 00-odd nations of the planet. I remember one practicing Muslim, an Egyptian by the name of Moustafa. Like me, he was young, full of excitement and confidence. His entire life centered round his religious convictions.
We cultivated a relationship of mutual respect—even admiration—through shared meals and frank discussions. Each of us was hoping to convert the other. I’ve shared my faith with all sorts of people. Some come to faith in Christ. But even if they don’t change their minds, I still try to remain respectful. We can plant seeds that way.
MC: Do you see a path to salvation in other religions? Especially when thinking about Hindus and Buddhists—what are your thoughts on that?
DJ: The Lord is the Judge—not my call—yet I doubt that sincerity can substitute for a saving relationship with Christ. Think about it: in Hinduism our destiny (once the reincarnations have ended) is to become one with the world soul, like a drop of water being added to the ocean. In other words, there are no personal relationships at all. It’s an ultimately impersonal world. I once asked a Hindu priest if he believed we used to be plants or insects. He said yes, we may go through hundreds of thousands of reincarnations. “But you don’t want to come back as a god,” he cautioned me. “They’re not very nice.” I appreciated his frankness.
The Buddha’s central teaching was that we have no soul at all! At the end of the day, it’s Hinduism: all = 1. Buddhism: all = 0. Both these religions hold that the material world is unreal—even though the world has always existed. (This is in opposition to the findings of science: not only is there a physical world, but it has a beginning in time—it’s not infinitely old.)
While we might like to believe there are multiple pathways to God, such a view contradicts the Bible. I deeply believe God is fair, and that he tells us the truth, so I trust what Jesus said when he proclaimed “I am the way… No one comes to the Father but through me” (John 14:6).
MC: Got any debates coming up? What’s next for you on that front?
DJ: Nothing planned at the moment, though I’m always interested. I’ve had debates with atheists and agnostics, and a number with prominent Muslim and Jewish figures. Who knows when the next one will be!
MC: Do you have a favorite Bible translation? Is there one that resonates with you more than others?
DJ: Among the English versions, I especially like the NET, ESV, and CSB.
MC: But you prefer to read Scripture in the original languages?
DJ: Right. I read the Greek New Testament every day. I’m also working to improve my Hebrew. (I took two years of Hebrew at Harvard, and would like to go further.)
MC: How has studying the ancient languages deepened your understanding of Scripture?
DJ: It’s slowed me down, and hopefully made me more thoughtful. Reading the original languages also helps us better appreciate each book of the Bible as a literary production—often far more skillfully written than we might think were we only reading in English. It’s also made it easier to be more aware of just how different the cultures of the Bible are.
I realize that most of us don’t have the time or energy to do this. But we can compensate for this by reading the Bible in multiple versions. English has way more than 100 translations, so for most of us, it’s easy to avoid a rut. Keep it fresh; read different Bible versions.
MC: In your view, what’s the biggest challenge our fellowship is facing right now? Where do we need to focus our energy and prayers?
DJ: That’s a great question. How about arrogance? We seem unwilling to learn from the past (church history, and even our own history). There’s the temptation to think we have arrived, or to identify God’s kingdom with a single denomination. (Not good.) Or maybe confusion about the gospel message. Through the years, my understanding has changed. I believe many of us Christian leaders have been too hard and too soft on our churches. Too hard: expecting people to jump through hoops / live like Spirit-filled Christians before conversion. This goes beyond Scripture and probably causes many to give up. After all, Jesus said his yoke is easy and his burden is light (Matthew 11:30). Too soft: On the other hand, good deeds are required after baptism, and without them we won’t be saved at the Last Day. Romans is often viewed as a book about grace, discouraging us from relying on our performance. While there’s some truth to this, it’s not quite right. Paul insists that Jewish Christians were not justified through the Law of Moses. Law means Torah, not obedience to God’s commandments! In fact, Romans mentions obedience more than any other N.T. letter. Discipleship is a serious matter.
I might also spotlight the false belief that we need professional clergy in order to be a real church. Church buildings and paid staff, at least in most locations, are luxuries, especially where Christianity is illegal, or there isn’t freedom of religion. Who knows how many are meeting in small groups (house churches)? Actually, when I was asked this question [the biggest challenge] during a teaching day in Boston back in 1998, my answer was materialism. This sin—which numbed the Laodiceans (Rev 3) and distracted those growing in the “third soil” (Luke 8)—is alive and well.
MC: For someone considering studying theology, what’s your top tip? Where should they start?
DJ: The Bible is central. Focus there. If you're not ready to get a degree in Bible or theology, consider completing a practical course (like AIM or MTA). As you study, don’t become a recluse. Keep reaching out. Don’t cut yourself off.
MC: What level of theological education do you think is needed for someone leading a church? What’s the minimum standard you'd recommend?
DJ: I can’t make a rule here, but would suggest degree in Bible (MA) or ministry (MDiv). Youth and campus leaders especially need training in biblical interpretation and apologetics (evidences). Don’t fall for thinking that says education is optional. Peter and John may not have had the education of the apostle Paul, but they did sit at Jesus’ feet for several years. He trained them, and their learning made a deep impression on the religious authorities (Acts 4:12-13).
MC: What are some of the positives you’ve found in connecting with Christians from different streams? Have there been any unexpected blessings?
DJ: The way is narrow, and often lonely—but not so narrow and lonely as I’d been led to believe in my first two or three decades as a Christian. It’s been great connecting with strong Christians in theological and scientific circles. I read their books, and spending time with these guys is an honor and privilege.
MC: What do you make of the trend in the evangelical world to move away from the Old Testament? Does it concern you?
DJ: Very much! People are giving up way too easily. The OT is the foundation of the NT, in addition to constituting the first three quarters of Scripture. We won’t understand many parts of the NT without a grasp of OT essentials. These days, many skeptics and critics of our faith deride “the God of the Old Testament.” There are good answers to their objections and concerns, if we will put in the effort to learn them. The world has no right to pressure believers to distance themselves from the OT.
MC: How do you stay grounded in your convictions while interacting with people from different Christian traditions? What helps you remain anchored in your faith?
DJ: I keep studying the Word. And sharing it with others.
MC: On a different note, what kind of music do you enjoy? What’s on your playlist these days?
DJ: No playlist, believe it or not, even on my phone. Classical, classic rock, and a lot more. Usually I just tell Alexa, “Play Debussy,” or “Play Bluegrass.” Sometimes she doesn’t understand me. (It gets really interesting when I’m teaching online and all of a sudden Alexa or Siri, inadvertently summoned, chimes in!) Vicki and I both enjoy classical music, and a lot of modern music.
MC: What is the most important thing you are striving for at this phase of your life?
DJ: Probably to value relationships over achievements—and to be a good husband.
MC: Thanks for your time, Doug. I look forward to seeing you in London next month!
DJ: It was a pleasure, Malcolm.
